Confused

The more I read the Bible, the more questions I have. Rob Bell would say that's me acknowledging the fact that I don't know all the answers, but it feels more like me saying that my faith isn't all that strong. Either way, I have questions. I'm reading in Acts right now, and I'm thinking about the time when Jesus was on the Earth. There's no way that anyone other than the thousands around Israel could have known about Him being here. Peter is talking to the Sanhedrin about Jesus in Acts 4:12, and he says, "Salvation is found in no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." That makes me wonder about all those people at that time who wouldn't be able to know His name. People too far away to realize their savior had come. What happens to them?

Starting

I figure it's about time we get started on our wiki discussion. To check out more about what we'll be doing, click here.

Discussions

So I'd like to go in two directions here. Hopefully both running parallel yet somehow interweaving. That makes no sense, but sort of sounds cool in an artistic "I'm abstract and hate anything mainstream" sort of way.

Track 1. Continue with this blog as is in its current form (but I promise to add to it more often). Matt2 even promised to give a topic or idea for posting now and again, and I'd love it if more followed his lead.

Track 2. Start a wiki (stupid name, cool concept) for discussing Rob Bell's book "Velvet Elvis." I recently started reading it, and it's sitting on my nightstand begging to be discussed. I need to talk it through with people, and a wiki is a better set up for that sort of conversation. It's basically a collaborative environment where everyone gets to edit and discuss on a page. I'll explain more to anyone who is willing to try the discussion. I'd like to start this in two to three weeks, and I'm hoping that will give everyone who is interested time to get the book, get set up on the wiki, and get ready for good discussions. Please let me know if you're interested. I think the book is incredibly intriguing so far, and I really think it could be something that would spur great conversations.

I've now used some variant of the word "discuss" six times in this post. Seven. That's too many. If only Andrew Birchwood were here now to lend his English teaching/broadcasting expertise.

That's all I've got. Let me know where you stand with all of this if you get the chance.

Broken?

I'm not sure this is working. I don't say that in anyway to blame, embarrass, or try to guilt anyone. I'm just not sure we've achieved what the goal was in the beginning. It's really hard to say this without worrying that I'm going to upset or offend anyone, and I trust you all know me well enough to know that would never be my intent. I just want to be honest when I say that we started this to build community, and I don't think that has happened. I've been inspired and encouraged by many of your words, and I've certainly given much thought to what you all have said, but I feel we've digressed more into a journal where I post my ideas or thoughts to be read rather than facilitating ideas to be discussed. Maybe a blog setup isn't conducive for the type of discussions I'd hoped we'd all have. I have one more idea that I'd like to try before calling it over for our experiment.

This is going to take a commitment on your part, so please feel absolutely free to say you aren't interested or it isn't something you'd be willing to do. The commitment would be to check back once a week, post at least once, and possibly be willing to buy a book. I'll give you more details if we have at least four people who are really willing to commit to the idea. Just post in the comments if you're interested, and we'll see where it goes from there.

Amazing

I'm consistently amazed at how God works. He provides in so many ways, and I think one of the most profound provisions is the way He teaches us. One of the first posts on this site dealt with doubt and God's role in both creation and science. I came across this article yesterday on CNN's website. The article is awesome as are the comments at the bottom of the page. Give it a read, and hopefully it will encourage you as it has me.

Devotions II

Okay, I promise this isn't a copout. I feel that our discussion about devotions has been too important to move on to another topic quite yet. If you haven't had the chance to read through all the comments on last week's post, I'd encourage you to scroll down and read the great ideas people have posted. I'd also like to focus this week's conversation on two specific aspects of personal devotions.

1. Matt2 referenced a five component model for spiritual growth, and I think that idea is intriguing. I'd love to know more about what those five components are. It also makes me wonder if we should only focus our devotional time on reading the Bible and praying, or if there are other ways to conduct our devotions. Like reading a thought-provoking book by a Christian author like Ravi Zacharias or Rob Bell. I think the question that comes to mind about this issue is, what are the vital components for our devotions? I guess that would be question one.


2. I love the way Matt (it's so confusing with two Matt's) said, "If discussions about faith became part of everyday conversation, just something we're always thinking and talking about, how great would that be? Why reserve it for church or conferences or even blogs? It's so easy to get wrapped up in yourself and forget about God, especially when we relegate God to places or times." That makes me wonder about our current perception about devotions. Does the Bible give us any guidance on how we should pursue our personal devotions? Is the 15-20 minutes a day model something we've created on our own? Would our devotions be more dynamic if they were done as a community as often as privately? I think my essential question for this aspect of devotions would be, is there a specific model set up in the Bible regarding how we conduct our personal devotions? I know these two questions are related, but I think they are extremely important to ask if we're to establish healthy, nourishing devotional lives.


One more small housekeeping issue for you all to ponder. I have the blog set up so that I get emailed whenever a new comment is posted. It's very convenient in that I always know when there's new content to read and consider. I'm wondering if any of you would like for me to set it up so that you are sent an email as well. I know some of you would prefer not to have the comments come to your inbox, so don't feel bad at all if you prefer just to keep checking the site for new comments. I also know that some of might like to know when something new is posted, so if you'd like me to add you to that list, just let me know.

Devotions

I know, it's a sensitive subject. But why? I remember a few years ago I was at a youth conference listening to Chris Tomlin present in a break-out session. Near the end of his talk, he asked if anyone had any questions. After a few of the typical, "What do you think of the modern worship movement?" questions, a younger kid in the back of the room asked about Chris's devotional life. You could immediately feel people get uncomfortable, and Chris responded something to the effect that his was probably pretty much like the kid's. The kid then pressed the issue further by asking, "No, what do you do specifically. Like how long, how often, do you pray and read the Bible?" There was an audible gasp from the crowd, which I'm sure I was a part of. No one could believe how rude and obtrusive this kid was being. Ask someone point-blank about the specifics of his devotional life? That's simply not acceptable. But why?

Looking back on that incident now, I wonder about my reaction. Sure your devotional life is something very personal and intimate you share with God, but is it so sacred that you don't talk about it with others? I guess I blanch at the question because I'm afraid of someone asking it of me. What is my devotional life like? Well, pretty sad if I'm being honest. If I try to do my devotions in the morning, I'm too tired and fall asleep. If I try to do them in the evening, things get so busy that I find myself trying to squeeze them in the fleeting moments I'm waiting for the sheets to warm up when I crawl into bed. So I've resorted to a "do them when I can" method. Which really means "inconsistently, without depth, and more days without than with." I want to get better at this. If you're like me, I want you to get better at this, too. If you're currently experiencing dynamic, regular devotions, I'd love for you to help those of us who struggle to get better. So I guess my essential question is two-fold. What is your devotional life like, and what can be done to turn a weak life of devotion into a foundational strength?

Ideas

I'm encouraged. I've received great feedback from many of you, and it seems like we have at least eight people who are committed to this community. Immediately a question surfaces. What now? At least that's become my question of late.

I'm hoping many of you are thinking, "well, it would seem obvious at this point we should commune." I would agree, but ideas have sprung up from many of you, and I thought this might be the time for us to take pause and consider our direction and vehicle that will deliver us wherever it is that we're going together.

A very good Dr.-type friend of mine living out in NY emailed me this week wondering about the possibility of making this site a little more protected. He said he might feel more comfortable, and others might as well, knowing that our conversations weren't out in the public domain. After taking a little more in-depth look at the site, however, he said that might not be entirely necessary given the way we don't really have to offer all of our personal information in our registration. He brought up a good point, though. Would you all prefer that I make this site restricted? I could send you all the necessary information to access the site, and if new people want to join, I could send them an invite as well. Or, do we want to leave it open as it currently is? That would be question 1.

Question 2. What do you want out of this site? I know what I described in the first post, but how do we establish a place where people can feel free to discuss ideas and issues that we're experiencing in our Christian walks? I know it isn't something that can be forced, but I do want to do everything I can to make this less of a place where I simply air out my personal thoughts for people to read as they wander by and more of a community where everyone throws out their ideas for group discussions. I don't want anyone to feel like I'm pushing them to respond to every single post or comment posted by others, but I do want to know what kinds of posts will facilitate more discussion from everyone. I guess I'm really just asking you all to take a chance with me. Commit to checking back here a couple times a week, and start talking to each other. Invest in the ideas and comments of those who risk their thoughts and feelings being known and thought about by others. Now go commune.

Stumbling

I wish my faith was stronger. I find that at times it's the small things that make me stumble, and I get frustrated that I don't have better answers for my questions. I'll give you an example.

The other day I decided to try and start reading the Bible from beginning to end (thanks Matt for the inspiration), and I got caught up right away in Genesis 1. I've heard many times that we're not supposed to read the Bible as a science textbook, and that certain passages are written as they are due to cultural context, but this one confused me. You might want to read all of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2:4-7 for reference.

God says "Let there be light" and separates light from darkness by creating day and night on Day 1.

On Day 2, God separates water (which interestingly water isn't mentioned as being created as God hovers over the waters in verse 2 before creation), and he calls the expanse which separates the water "sky."

On Day 3, God gathers the water under the sky and dry ground appears. Then He creates vegetation on the land. "The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds."

On Day 4 God creates the stars, the sun, and the moon.

And here lies my issues. How is it that there is light on Day 1, but the stars and sun aren't created until Day 4? What's producing the light? God creates the plants on Day 3, but the sun isn't created until Day 4. In 2:4-7, the account of the heavens and earth being created states that "no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth..." It's here that I find myself stumbling a little.

If God creates the plants on Day 3 without the sun, how do the plants grow? Again, I know the Bible isn't a science book, but in chapter 2, it states that the plants couldn't grow because they didn't have water, so it seems to me that some scientific reasoning is being used. I've heard many people adamantly argue about the inerrancy of Scripture, but it seems like something isn't quite right about this sequence in creation.

I know we are called to have a child-like faith, but at what point does child-like faith become a naive-faith? I want to believe with every bit of who I am, but I find there are times when I falter. The issue is personal, but it's also relevant for the way I share my faith with others. How would I address this issue with someone like one of my teammates at work who is very much into science and logical evidence?

I really hate it that I get tripped up on issues like this, but I guess it's these kinds of experiences that ultimately make our faith stronger once we work through them. So, what's your take and response to these issues?

Beginning

I'm not sure if this is the right way to start or not, but I thought maybe it would be best if we just said a little bit about who we are before we started really discussing ideas and thoughts about Christian spirituality (a Donald Miller term, not my own). I'd also like to let you guys know a little more about my plan.

I'd like to post a discussion topic once or twice a week, and I plan to publish the posts on a Monday or Thursday night. That way you guys have an idea about when to check to see if there's something you think is worth discussing or not. I'd also like to open up the posts to anyone, so if you have something that's been on your mind or something you'd like to bring up to talk about, just email me, and I'll put it up for future discussion. I'll post our first real discussion topic this Thursday, and I look forward to getting your input regarding that topic. As James MacDonald would say, "do I know how to keep you guys tuning in, or what? LOL." I know, it's a horrible line, but for those of you who have read his blog, you might appreciate the reference.

So if you'd be so kind, let us know a little about who you are. Like what you do, where you are, why your name is Dave J. and you log into the comments as Andrew Birchwood. Just some simple facts will suffice.

Thirsty

Not having a home church for over a year does something to a person. Not living in consistent Christian community or meeting with a small group of close friends to share ideas and pray for one another has left me with a great spiritual thirst. It's the advent of this thirst that spawned the idea of this community blog. I really miss having dynamic spiritual conversations, and I hope that this space can provide the opportunity for good, open discussions about the things that are impacting our spiritual lives as we continue to grow as Christians. I think about all the amazing people who God has blessed me with the privilege of knowing, and I think of how incredible it would be if they all had a chance to talk and grow and learn from each other as I have learned from them. Hopefully this will be a place where such conversations and interactions can happen.

I guess the format for this will be pretty simple. I'll just post an idea or thought, and we can discuss it using the comments. Thanks for being a part of this. I really look forward to our conversations.